The great TFP debate, or why I don’t shoot TFP!
One of the most frequent topics in many of the forums that I read is that of TFP or TFCD. TFP stands for “Time For Print”, while TFCD stands for “Time For CD”.
The idea behind TFP/CD is that the all the participants of the shoot give their time for free and they all benefit from the shoot by getting images from it. Usually the images are portfolio use only and thus can only be used for promotion.
On the face of it is seems like a good deal, everyone shoots for free. However, for some reason many photographers seem to get a sense of kudos from shooting a good model on a TFP basis. A sort of “My work is so good that the model really wanted to work with me for free”. This is especially true when photographing nudes. Most models want paying when being photographed and doubly so if they take their clothes off. So if the model will shoot nude for you for free it says something about you as a photographer.
This results in many threads that go like this:
Photographer A: How do I get models to shoot nude?
Photographer B: Try paying them!
Photographer C: If your work is good enough then you don’t need to pay them, I never pay my models! I only cover their expenses.
So here we have 3 photographers, A wants to shoot nudes, B pays to shoot nudes and C gets them for free.
But there is a sham to TFP that I recently discovered and I don’t think its common knowledge among those that don’t do it. I recently shot a model, I was paying, and at the end she offered to fill out the receipt stating that the entire fee was for travelling expenses. So if I had agreed, I could have claimed that I shot the model for free and only covered their expenses.
I went back and looked at several threads where the photographer has “covered expenses” and have often found that the models travel long distances and get all their expenses covered. So what this amounts to is effectively a photographic holiday. They travel, get their expenses covered and do a few hours shooting. If they plan it well they can get several paying shoots in the area and do well out of it.
Now to me it’s a con. Not on the part of the model, but on the part of the photographer. If you pay, then you pay. To my mind TFP is only TFP if no money changes hands and that would include bus/air/petrol/hotel charges.
I would guess that if each of the photographers who “shoot nudes TFP” actually listed how much their “expenses” actually were, I think that we would all decide they most of them were really paying.
There is another aspect to TFP. Many photographers think that models should shoot with them for free (TFP) because the models need the photographs for their portfolio in order to find paying work. Traditionally models would “test” with a photographer to see if they could work together and pay the photographer for portfolio shots. The photographers would hire models when they had a paid job and the client would pay the photographer and the model.
The arrival of cheap photography has changed that, and there are a very large number of hobby photographers. These photographers think that the models should shoot with them for free (TFP) because it will help the models to get a paying gig with another photographer. But the point they miss is that there are now so many hobby photographers that it has created a new industry of hobby/semi-pro models. These models have to cover many expenses and most of them will never get a gig for a magazine; they simply serve the hobby photographer community with models to shoot.
Thus, unless the model has no portfolio at all, those photographers who insist that they will only shoot TFP (assuming they don’t pay stupid expenses) are just ripping off the models.
If photography is your hobby, then pay the models something. Remember models need to eat too!
This is why I don’t shoot TFP. Shooting TFP and offering silly expenses is simply paying but claiming it’s free because of a technicality. Not paying at all it simply ripping these models off. If a model wants some of my shots then we can negotiate part-payment where they get some images and reduce their fee, or I will pay them. I don’t need to use a technicality to claim I’m good enough that they will shoot for free so that my ego gets a boost.
I’m sorry that this turned into a bit of a rant but I see many models in the forums that are effectively being exploited so that some guy can practice his hobby for free, or photographers who constantly think their work is not good enough because they can’t get models for free.
Please note that this post is not aimed at models, TFP or otherwise, it’s aimed at those photographers who either mislead others, and maybe themselves, or exploit models.
Here is Cheeky Lee, looking, well, cheeky ....
The idea behind TFP/CD is that the all the participants of the shoot give their time for free and they all benefit from the shoot by getting images from it. Usually the images are portfolio use only and thus can only be used for promotion.
On the face of it is seems like a good deal, everyone shoots for free. However, for some reason many photographers seem to get a sense of kudos from shooting a good model on a TFP basis. A sort of “My work is so good that the model really wanted to work with me for free”. This is especially true when photographing nudes. Most models want paying when being photographed and doubly so if they take their clothes off. So if the model will shoot nude for you for free it says something about you as a photographer.
This results in many threads that go like this:
Photographer A: How do I get models to shoot nude?
Photographer B: Try paying them!
Photographer C: If your work is good enough then you don’t need to pay them, I never pay my models! I only cover their expenses.
So here we have 3 photographers, A wants to shoot nudes, B pays to shoot nudes and C gets them for free.
But there is a sham to TFP that I recently discovered and I don’t think its common knowledge among those that don’t do it. I recently shot a model, I was paying, and at the end she offered to fill out the receipt stating that the entire fee was for travelling expenses. So if I had agreed, I could have claimed that I shot the model for free and only covered their expenses.
I went back and looked at several threads where the photographer has “covered expenses” and have often found that the models travel long distances and get all their expenses covered. So what this amounts to is effectively a photographic holiday. They travel, get their expenses covered and do a few hours shooting. If they plan it well they can get several paying shoots in the area and do well out of it.
Now to me it’s a con. Not on the part of the model, but on the part of the photographer. If you pay, then you pay. To my mind TFP is only TFP if no money changes hands and that would include bus/air/petrol/hotel charges.
I would guess that if each of the photographers who “shoot nudes TFP” actually listed how much their “expenses” actually were, I think that we would all decide they most of them were really paying.
There is another aspect to TFP. Many photographers think that models should shoot with them for free (TFP) because the models need the photographs for their portfolio in order to find paying work. Traditionally models would “test” with a photographer to see if they could work together and pay the photographer for portfolio shots. The photographers would hire models when they had a paid job and the client would pay the photographer and the model.
The arrival of cheap photography has changed that, and there are a very large number of hobby photographers. These photographers think that the models should shoot with them for free (TFP) because it will help the models to get a paying gig with another photographer. But the point they miss is that there are now so many hobby photographers that it has created a new industry of hobby/semi-pro models. These models have to cover many expenses and most of them will never get a gig for a magazine; they simply serve the hobby photographer community with models to shoot.
Thus, unless the model has no portfolio at all, those photographers who insist that they will only shoot TFP (assuming they don’t pay stupid expenses) are just ripping off the models.
If photography is your hobby, then pay the models something. Remember models need to eat too!
This is why I don’t shoot TFP. Shooting TFP and offering silly expenses is simply paying but claiming it’s free because of a technicality. Not paying at all it simply ripping these models off. If a model wants some of my shots then we can negotiate part-payment where they get some images and reduce their fee, or I will pay them. I don’t need to use a technicality to claim I’m good enough that they will shoot for free so that my ego gets a boost.
I’m sorry that this turned into a bit of a rant but I see many models in the forums that are effectively being exploited so that some guy can practice his hobby for free, or photographers who constantly think their work is not good enough because they can’t get models for free.
Please note that this post is not aimed at models, TFP or otherwise, it’s aimed at those photographers who either mislead others, and maybe themselves, or exploit models.
Here is Cheeky Lee, looking, well, cheeky ....
posted by Rich at 3:03 PM
8 Comments:
By the same token, a good art photographer deserves to be paid too, but that dosen't seem to happen very often either.
I'd love to pay everybody I work with bucketloads of money, but I haven't got any money, so I only work with people who don't mind getting ripped off. I'm just lucky there are so many gullible
On the contrary. Like you, I shoot for art and not for money. I have 3 kids and very little spare cash. Hence I don’t shoot very often.
I have seen some cases where photographers pay the model a cut of any money they might make from the images. But this isn’t strictly TFP but is the ethical way for a photographer to go.
However, if you do find models that are desperate to shoot with you and don’t want to be paid then it means your work is good enough for them. My post was aimed mainly at those hobby photographers who won’t pay the models even though they should.
You raise some good points and from a position similar to mine. Perhaps I'll re-evaluate and follow your lead.
Thank you for addressing the topic.
(I've not seen this website before and followed a note on the Glamour1 forum. Hence your comments may soon get wider attention.)
Steve
Life Is Great Images
Bozeman MT USA
Taking such a broad-brush swipe at all those who use TFP and TFCD as a legitimate means of satisfying all parties concerned was wrong.
I personally am very grateful for models who will shoot TFCD with me.
So grateful, in fact, that apart of covering their expenses, and buying them lunch, I often give them something to help with their career. Is this wrong?
You are posting anonymously so there is no way for me to look at you and have any idea what you are doing.
But. Look at your portfolio. Is it full of TPF images of models who stand no chance of getting in a magazine, but will server the hobby lobby? Are you a member of the hobby lobby? Are you simply funding your hobby with free models? If so, then ask yourself why you should not pay them just a little for their time.
Maybe expenses and lunch is all it takes. It shows your giving a little more to them. A decent meal, rather than burger, would seem appropriate if thats what the model would like.
So you're saying that a photographer should spend all his money on his equipment, and then never expect to get paid for doing shoots?
How can one survive long doing that?
I started shooting TFP in July of 2005. Since January of 2006, I started charging models to shoot with me. I have averaged 2 shoots per week since then.
I take the moeny I earn and put it back into buying better equipment. So are you saying what I am doing is wrong?
-Jeff
I'm not aware that I commented on equipment at all. If you charge models for their images, the you are a professional and outside the scope of this post which is aimed at those who obtain the majority of their images through TFP.
Charging models is the industry standard and if you can get two per week then kudos to you my friend.
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